Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/04/1994 08:15 AM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HCR 12 - USE OF NATURAL GAS IN MOTOR VEHICLES REPRESENTATIVE DAVID FINKELSTEIN, PRIME SPONSOR, stated the move to get natural gas vehicles in Alaska has been slow going, but added there are many positive elements ongoing. The federal government has renewed interest, the state is making initial efforts converting its fleet, and the municipality of Anchorage recently put a couple of vehicles on line and has requested $500,000 in their capital request for a pilot project to expand the use of natural gas vehicles. He felt it was appropriate to have a resolution such as HCR 12 showing the legislature's support for expanding natural gas vehicle use in Alaska. CHUCK LANDERS, MEMBER, ANCHORAGE ASSEMBLY, testified via teleconference, and said the Anchorage assembly recently passed a legislative program which addresses this type of issue. In the program, the assembly has a grant request to buy a large compressor for approximately $500,000. He stressed the assembly believes there is a need to get into the Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) program. He said the assembly has one CNG car on line and added they are in the process of acquiring two CNG vans. MR. LANDERS stated Anchorage has many mandates due to the Clean Air Act and carbon monoxide (CO) nonattainment status. The assembly believes the CNG program is one of the answers and is willing to take the necessary steps to convert their fleet to CNG. The problem is the city has no fueling stations. He noted the one fueling station is a privately owned fuel station and is of the old technology, delivering CNG at 2,400 pounds per square inch (PSI). The latest equipment delivers CNG at 3,600 PSI. MR. LANDERS stated HCR 12 addresses many of the issues facing Anchorage currently. He added Anchorage is blessed in that it has natural gas and the CNG program is an excellent way for the city to use one of the state's resources. RON COLLINS, PRINCIPLE ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER, FLEET SERVICE DIVISION, MUNICIPALITY OF ANCHORAGE, testified via teleconference, and stated CNG is the fuel of the future. He said the abundance of CNG in Alaska is well known. The problems mentioned earlier are being dealt with on a daily basis. He remarked it is inconvenient for a large fleet to deal with refueling problems currently existing in Anchorage. He stressed a new refueling station would help achieve the CO attainment goals. In addition to the two CNG vehicles the municipality is attempting to purchase currently, he said the municipality also has ten vehicles which were converted after their arrival in Anchorage and stressed those vehicles will work in the application. (CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted for the record that REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON joined the committee at 8:30 a.m.) Number 118 JEFF OTTESEN, CHIEF, RIGHT-OF-WAY & ENVIRONMENT, DIVISION OF ENGINEERING AND OPERATIONS, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION AND PUBLIC FACILITIES, stated he is available for questions. REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES requested Mr. Ottesen to review the state's activity using CNG vehicles and asked if nonattainment areas such as Anchorage and Fairbanks will be helped through the use of CNG vehicles. MR. OTTESEN replied the state is currently using six vehicles with CNG capability and he verified the refueling problems expressed earlier. He said the technology is straightforward, with the capability of switching from CNG with the vehicle running to gasoline. However, he stressed there is a need for refueling stations. In regard to solving the CO problem, he stated CNG vehicles are much cleaner so they are a potential solution, particularly in the Anchorage and the greater Anchorage area where there is natural gas available. He noted the only way to get natural gas to Fairbanks is by pipeline or by transporting liquid natural gas by tanker to Fairbanks where it can then be used in a compressed form. REPRESENTATIVE PAT CARNEY asked what a compressor costs. MR. OTTESEN responded compressors range from the small home appliance which costs a few thousand dollars to a large- scale, three or four stage compressor providing rapid filling which costs $300,000 to $500,000. REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY inquired if the large compressor is needed to reach the 3,600 PSI. MR. OTTESEN said the large compressor refuels a large number of vehicles on a fast fuel basis, meaning a vehicle will be filled in three to four minutes. He stated the slow fill appliance takes six to eight hours to fill. REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY said he is trying to determine the differences in pressure. MR. OTTESEN stated the storage systems in the vehicles themselves have moved up from 2,400 PSI, to 3,000 PSI, and currently the storage technologies are moving toward 3,600 PSI. He added there is also new technology being explored which relies upon carbon absorption, which goes back down to 1,000 PSI, but relies upon an absorption principle as opposed to straight compression. He stressed storage is clearly the problem and added that when the fuel is compressed, it is no where as dense as gasoline. REPRESENTATIVE BILL HUDSON asked how CNG is sold and asked if it is taxed. MR. OTTESEN replied CNG is not taxed as an automotive or motor fuel. He said natural gas is sold on the basis of therms or BTU's, but added that most natural gas retail outlets are converting to what is considered a gallon equivalent. He explained a price is received based on therms, but the price looked at is considered to be a gallon of fuel or its equivalent energy content. Number 196 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if the tanks in a typical fueling station are large. MR. OTTESEN said the service stations he has seen in the lower 48 include a pressure station located somewhere on the property of a conventional gas station and the tanks are the size of the committee table but ten feet tall. He stated the cascade principle is usually used meaning there are tanks at different pressures. REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN stated he has a bill requiring the use of natural gas as a fuel. He said an organization recently formed in Anchorage is looking at the wide scope of uses of natural gas including use in locomotives. He felt one of the problems for widespread use of CNG is that it is compressed, except for home use. If distance is to be achieved, liquified natural gas (LNG) will need to be used since it has more BTU's per gallon than gasoline. For a given amount of energy derived from the thermal aspect of ombustion, further distances can be attained on LNG. Number 240 MR. OTTESEN noted that the state of New Mexico has just mandated the state's fleet be 100 percent converted to natural gas and at the same time, the public utility which sells natural gas is adding a small surcharge to all natural gas customers. He stated the surcharge money is going to be used to install a network of over twenty refueling stations throughout the state and at the same time, will provide rebates to people who convert their vehicles to natural gas. Number 259 (CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted for the record that REPRESENTATIVES MULDER AND BUNDE joined the committee at 8:40 a.m. and 8:43 a.m. respectively.) REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER stated the Chairman of the Anchorage Assembly had impressed upon him the need for an appropriation for their project. They are hoping to put a pump in Anchorage which will be a cooperative effort between the municipality, MAPCO and another entity. He felt HCR 12 is worthwhile as there are few industries in Alaska with value added products and this is one of them. REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY asked if LNG is the way of the future, will CNG compressors eventually become obsolete. MR. OTTESEN replied the industry is still focusing on CNG except for certain major industrial users. Recently, the Seattle Metropolitan bus fleet opted to go to LNG as opposed to CNG. He added that the two fuels are identical and said the only difference between the two is storage. He said CNG is the general method being sold currently. LNG is best for locomotives, large diesel trucks which are going to be converted, or bus systems and is a specialized niche at this time. REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY asked if the Japanese are using LNG in ordinary vehicles. MR. OTTESEN replied that worldwide, the U.S. is behind in the use of all types of alternative fuels and in particular, natural gas which is used widely. The Japanese are using LNG for heavy industrial uses, but CNG seems to be the preferred method. He added that LNG is stored in a vacuum insulated tank which keeps it cold. If a vehicle is being used daily, LNG is fine but if the vehicle is not used daily, a certain amount of boil off has to take place in the tank and that fuel is wasted to the atmosphere. Number 320 REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES made a MOTION to ADOPT the Oil and Gas committee substitute for HCR 12. CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if there were any objections. Hearing none, the MOTION PASSED. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES made a MOTION to MOVE CSHCR 12(O&G) out of committee with INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS. REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if the additional WHEREAS clause recommended by the Department of Transportation (DOT) is embodied in the committee substitute. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN stated the position paper had been submitted last year and the first recommended WHEREAS clause was not included based on discussions held in the Oil and Gas Committee. REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if it was the resolution sponsor's view that the first WHEREAS clause would enhance the resolution. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN said there had been a lot of discussion on the uses of LNG versus CNG and it was felt the first WHEREAS clause was not needed. CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if there were any objections to the motion. Hearing none, the MOTION PASSED. Number 370
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